Meshell Ndegeocello, like many people, would rather not turn on her camera during Zoom calls.
I want tohearyou, she says.
I enjoy my hearing apparatus.
Andre Wagner*
The eyes will fool you.
Nowadays, Ndegeocellos records tend to highlight the singing and playing of her bandmates more so than herself.
The first, released earlier this year, was atributeto Sun Ra.
The album is out today, on what would have been Baldwins 100th birthday.
are just one highlight).
Its all part of Ndegeocellos evolved sense of music-making.
At 55, she considers mentorship to be integral to her own artistic practice.
(That word is so hard, she says.
But yes, I amproducinghim: aiding in the production of his creative work.)
Im not a dinosaur, Ndegeocello says.
I can see the comet coming.
Youve been working on the various iterations of your Baldwin project for years.
I think our expectations cause us suffering.
Its something that comes from a place of sharing, so my ego is not in it.
I dont care if you like it.
Im not thinking about the reception.
I want to be like Baldwin and just bear witness to a moment in time.
Its not an ending.
Its more that the potentiality of this piece can go in so many different directions.
I had to check my ego.
I realized I shouldnt think that way.
Its a piece of music and it will be heard for what it is.
I had to catch myself out of that commercial music standard, to be honest.
Thats what changed in me: I just had to trust myself.
I should by now.
The album is interspersed with moving spoken-word passages.
And then the #MeToo movement was going on, and we all have daughters in our lives.
We are not single-issue beings, so we just tried to carry on his thoughts with new voices.
I struggle with that sometimes.
I thought: Everyone should hear Amiri Baraka.
Why are yall being so hard-lined about using him in this piece?
It really irked me.
So Hilton, to me, creates this throughline from then to now to wherever were going.
That just fascinates me.
So much of your work dispels that idea of authorship and ownership of words and language.
To get money, I still have to go out and play.
So my connection to all of that is different.
It may be more important to be heard.
I think Ive always just wanted to be heard.
I read that you have a flip phone.
Do I have that right?Yes, indeed.
I dont mess around.
It made me not like myself.
It made me think I was actually doing something for the world, sitting around, liking.
Its got me introuble.
Im not a Luddite.
But that screen is dangerous for the way my mind works.
I was starting to think Instagram people were actually my friends.
Thats when I had to wake up, like, Let me go chat with my friends!
So now I have whats called a Light Phone.
I can still get directions.
It holds like 100 podcasts and 200 songs.
Ive read you talk about not really identifying with the earliest part of your career in the Nineties.I do!
Im in my mid-fifties.
Its a little strange singing songs I wrote when I was 19.
Im maybe a bit more modest than I used to be.
Im just a different person.
Im in a different phase of humanhood, and Ive experienced some things.
With my old records its like: Dotheyhold up over time?
It just doesnt come across the same way.
So Im not thinking so much about whether they hold up.
Im just like, Is that interesting musically, now?
Thats how I feel covering music.
But thats like a security blanket, because sometimes you have nothing to say.
My bass playing is changing because of physical reasons.
I played a 30-pound bass for 30 years, and I can no longer do that.
My shoulders are like, We dont do that anymore.
So Im playing different basses and I work with a physical therapist.
So if I go to play Boyfriend, its just not gonna feel the same.
Im just a different player.
Ive had heartbreaks and changes and I really listen to music differently.
I was listening to Broadcast today, and I laid down and I cried.
Or listening to PJ HarveysLet England Shakeas were in all these wars.
Im having a different experience with music.
Your records as of late seem so much more invested in the group dynamic and in collaboration.
In the Nineties you were a solo star with hit records.
I was like, Wow, thats how go-go was.
I realized there are few Princes.
He was a singularity.
My dad played in a big band.
Im realizing, musically, thats where Im coming from.
The true friendship that happens with eye contact and time and space and not instant gratification.
Thats what I realize happens in the music, too.
You won your first solo Grammy earlier this year.
Is that key in of recognition meaningful or totally circumstantial?Circumstantial.
I gotta laugh because the first [Grammy] I get is for my brother Robert Glasper.
[Ndegeocello was featured, alongside H.E.R., on the Grammy-winning 2020 songBetter Than I Imagined.]
I have to thank him.
But thats the year I quit the Grammys.
Then I got one.
I met that guyNeil Portnow, and, you know, I wish him grace.
Im glad thats over and hopefully this will usher in a period where everyone is valued.
But I know its a sporting contest.
I just like that its getting more open and everyone seems to be, at least, considered.
Its just so interesting-sounding.
New, what doesnewmean.
What isnewthat you speak of, my love?
You mean young[laughs].
You want me to name somebodyyoung.
I love the feel of it, the bounce of it.
Oh, and theres one group I saw at the Lodge Room,O Terno.
Theyre from Brazil and its some of the most interesting music Ive ever heard.
You are quoted saying, I dont even know why I do this anymore onstage.I was already jaded.
Oh, the things of youth.
You know what my favoriteRolling Stonewas?
Im going to sound like an asshole, but I dont care.
