Thats a heavy moment for some people, but Anastasio says he couldnt be happier about it.
Maybe this is going to sound strange, but I really like it, Anastasio says.
Its like something really amazing is happening, where Im not part of the scramble anymore.
Danny Clinch photographing Phish in New York City on March 26, 2024.Danny Clinch*
It gives me the opportunity to observe, and enjoy.
Its a beautiful feeling.
Im not scrambling up hills anymore.
What music still moves you the most?
[French composer Maurice] Ravel.
It speaks to the muddled emotions that Ive felt for most of my life.
She was able to express confused emotions, without nailing things down.
I never got a sense from Joni that shes telling me that she understood stuff.
Tomorrow Im playing with an orchestra, which is something that I love.
So thats the good part.
It opens up doors, artistically, that you might not otherwise be able to enter.
The worst part is that it makes you self-conscious, and its horrible.
Im in a band that isnt very famous.
Its been the luckiest thing that ever happened to us.
And yet, every time I walk out the door, I keep getting reminded that maybe I am.
People who come up are always nice.
If you take that to an extreme, its killed people before.
Many times, thousands of times.
Its the story of a thousand years.
And once you do, youre fine.
And now youre back to the good part of it.
It makes you feel really good.
You just played Steely Dan songs at the Songwriter Hall of Fame awards.
It was amazing to me that Phish had never covered them before.
It feels like such a natural fit.
They certainly had a huge impact on me, and all of us, I think.
But I can only speak for myself.
I loved all those records.
I was the right age.
I started high school in the late Seventies.
One ‘Dire Wolf’ Never Went AwayBobby Weir: Ive Never Made Plans.
Dire Wolves Are Back.
One ‘Dire Wolf’ Never Went Away
Bobby Weir: Ive Never Made Plans.
It was such a pleasure to do that.
But I loved learning that.
It didnt come that hard to me.
Maybe its a language that I feel like I speak.
It was a pleasure to learn the Larry Carlton solo.
I like the way his brain works.
It was a joy.
I wanted to do it, like, six more times.
Can we do it again?
It was so fun.
All of my focus as a writer has been on writing songs to fill in the live set list.
Thats always been the way Ive thought about it.
And then, I always wished that we could go back and record it again.
And its all the same people.
And I learned that if a song is a good song, it always works solo acoustic.
And many producers have tried to tell me that since I started 40 years ago.
That makes a lot of sense.Quincy Jones used to talk about that.
A good song is a good song.
And that all the B sections and everything were completed.
And then, we went back out, played everything one more time, live.
And then the final piece is that I like old-fashioned albums where people did takes.
So, Aretha Franklin, the Band, they always did takes.
They set up in a circle.
The best Beatles albums were like that.
We used take seven.
And thats our greatest strength as Phish.
So this whole album was recorded in about two days.
But there was an enormous amount of thought that went into it before we got to those two days.
Phish never had even a single radio hit.
The closest was Free, and most nonfans dont know even that one.
Its been incredibly liberating.
Were not in that game.
We have grown at a glacial pace.
We didnt have to skip any stages of learning, and we didnt cut the line.
And its always bad to cut the line.
Its a lifetime pursuit, music, and its a series of false peaks.
So every time you climb up a peak Oh, I think I get this.
I think I understand album construction.
I think I understand songwriting theres always another.
Nobody ever figures it out, all of it.
Every single person in the room was completely involved in the concert.
And I thought that was a really astute comment, being at his first Phish concert.
Thats what you get by taking your time.
Im trying to imagine in my head what a Phish radio hit would even sound like.
I also have this other weird theory about this.
The realm of hits are, generally speaking … You go back through your whole history of music.
Be My Baby, [the Ronettes] were 19 years old.
The Beatles were 23.
Go back and look at how old some of these people actually were.They were probably around 23 or so.Exactly.
Go for it.The Band,The Band.Levon Helm and Robbie [Robertson] were 26 and 29.
Bob Marley,Catch a Fire,28.
Joni Mitchell,Blue,28.
Carole King,Tapestry,28.
Bob Dylan,Blonde on Blonde,25.
Public Enemy,It Takes Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back.Chuck D was 28.
Stevie Wonder,Songs in the Key of Life,28.
Kendrick Lamar,To Pimp a Butterfly,28.
The Clash,London Calling,28.Led Zeppelin IV.Jimmy Page was 27.
The Beatles, the White Album.
Bruce Springsteen,Born to Run.He was 26.
Radiohead,OK Computer.Thom Yorke was 28.
Sly and the Family Stone,Theres a Riot Going On.Sly was 28.
The Rolling Stones,Exile on Main Street,Mick and Keith were both 29.
Velvet Underground,Loaded.Lou Reed was 28.
The Who,Quadrophenia.Pete Townshend was 28.
Nirvana,Nevermind,Kurt was 24.
Hank Williams, Im So Lonesome I Could Cry.Moanin the Bluesis his great album.
Patsy Cline, I Fall to Pieces.
Miles Davis,Kind of Blue.He was 33, a little older.
The Smiths,The Queen is Dead,their masterpiece.
Morrissey was 28.Queen IIandSheer Heart Attack.Freddy was 28, for both those albums.
Taylor Swift,Reputation,28.
Neil Young,Harvest,28.
Talking Heads,Remain in Light.David Byrne was 28.
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds,The Boatmans Call.I could go on for six hours this way.
But do you see what Im saying?
Hits are for young people.Yeah, so this is why its our superpower, and why its liberating.
Were not in this game.
And the game that we are in, is so deeply satisfying for other reasons.
And by the way, even when we were young, that wasnt our goal.
We wanted to improve the live show.
Thats all we ever talked about, How good a live show can we make?
I would write this material, and we would practice and practice and practice.
That was our happy place.
And so, we reaped what we sowed.
The band broke up between 2004 and 2009.
What was that time like for you?At that time, I just needed to get healthy.
And we were getting devoured by substance abuse and stuff.
On the inside, there was exhaustion and the problems that come with growing too fast.
I mean, we grew really fast.
People have forgotten that we were some of the first people to do festivals in America.
There werent any festivals in the Nineties besides Phish festivals.
I know that sounds crazy, but Lollapalooza was a tour at existing venues.
We created fully-built festivals, and drew 80,000 people.
And there were a lot of hangers-on.
So that was why we stopped.
I mean, I was in trouble at that period in time, and Im glad I survived it.
That wasnt the assured outcome.
And I love these guys.
Its impossible to describe the level of the love within the band.
All four of us have gone through a lot of things over the years.
Its been 40 years.
Most longtime bands absolutely loathe one another.A lot of bands smile onstage together.
They cant even be in catering together.
We really, sincerely like each other.
Its weird, after all these years.
The only other bands Ive ever met where that wasnt the case was Rush and U2.
They really liked each other.
But Rush knew each other in middle school.
All of these other bands were genuine friends at one point.
What happens?Theres just too much water under the bridge.
Anyone that would be reading this, picture who your best friends were when you were 18.
Thats how old we were when we met.
And imagine you got trapped in a van with them for 40 years.
Because thats what happens.
Youre in a car, and then when youre lucky, it moves to a van.
So you have an extra 35 inches of space.
And youre backstage, in a little room.
Its a hockey rink, so youre in basically the refs room in an arena.
Its not glamorous back there.
And for hours and hours on end, for years and years and years.
And then people get married and they get divorced.
And weve had five divorces in Phish, four band members, five divorces.
So theres animosity with ex-wives or whatever.
It just builds up, and personalities clash.
Ive seen it with the best bands.
Im talking real loathing, like, Dont put a gun in the room.
You guys seem to genuinely like one another.We were 18 when we met.
Were going to be 60 years old soon.
Every night before a show, we got into this little backstage room.
We have a teeny keyboard and a little two piece drum set, and a five-watt Fender amp.
Were like, Well play a little bit.
And at this point, its such a lucky thing that it happened that way.
Its really a miracle.We had conflicts before Page joined, the first year or two.
But when Page walked in, and it was the four … the chemistry is just … And that, likewise, the friendships in the audience.
Our audience is a huge community.
If somebody quits Phish, is it over?Thats it.
Listen, line me up and shoot me when Im wrong.
But there is no way that this band could exist without any of the four members.
Its all money, at a certain point.
I mean, its nostalgia, and money, and oldies.
But Led Zeppelin didnt do that.
You dont have to do it.
But I hope that doesnt happen.
You fronted the Dead at their farewell shows in 2015.
What did you learn from that experience?That was an incredible honor.
But Ill quote Jorma Kaukonen, who was there from the beginning.
He famously said, Its Jerrys band.
Thats what I learned working with them.
The songs are incredible, and its great there are a lot of tribute bands going and playing it.
I mean, James Brown had a great band, too.
And Jerry had a great band.
Everybody gets to sing his songs.
But other than that, its pretty much just nostalgia.
The end of Jerrys life was very sad.
He was on this giant merry-go-round and he couldnt get off.
Do you empathize with some of the burdens he faced?I do.
Thank God shes saying that and not holding it in.
What shes going through always happens.
Just think of Amy Winehouse.
When that train leaves the station, theres so much to be gained from so many people around you.
And everybody has an agenda.
And most people with this job are people pleasers or they wouldnt be good entertainers.
You want it to be good, so you pour everything you’re able to into it.
But then by definition, people in your orbit have something to gain by being attached to that.
And theyre not bad people, they just … suddenly they have something to gain.
So maybe youre in the entourage, and you get to stay at the Four Seasons.
And you get to go to the party.
It gets very hard to say no to people.
And then theres more and more and more and more and more people that you cant say no to.
You start agreeing to do stuff that you didnt want to do.
Like, Why do I all of a sudden have 750 best friends?
When two months ago, before I was famous, I had one best friend.
This stuff starts rolling, and your own dad can turn on you.
This happens all the time, and its all a hippie-dippy peace and love and happy dancing bears.
But I wishJerry Garciawas still alive, personally.
And I guess that you dont even see it happening when its happening.
But alcohol, which is probably the hardest of all of them, in a weird way.
Nothing will do you in like a big, giant bottle of vodka.
Going through the Eighties in a band, and most of the Nineties, just completely avoiding it.
And then all of a sudden it creeps up on you.
You dont even really see it happening.
And I said, Heroin slash painkillers.
And he said, Well, you were probably in pain.
People who take that shit usually are in pain.
Why would you do that to yourself unless you were just trying to turn everything off for a minute?
And Im also in a band with one sober guy: me.
I look at it like some of my friends are vegan, and some of them eat meat.
Im not here to sit in judgment and say, One life choice is better than another.
Theres a million life choices.
I certainly dont have any judgment about anything, except for myself.
Im very judgmental of myself.
But what I can add to the conversation is that theres a way out.
I think if youre having a problem, you know it.
And if you have a friend whos having a problem, you know it.
Weve all had either a problem ourselves, or known someone who has.
And you know it when you see it.
Do you still hope that?Now, I hope its nineties.
I want to do a Willie [Nelson].
Because I love them, and I want us all to take care of ourselves.
Statistically, things happen.
And some day, someone, something will.
When youve got four men who spend four or five decades together, it just has to, right?
Its become more and more tangible.
Its like a ritual now.
We stand in a circle, and were like, Everybodys healthy today.
We get to do this again.
Everybodys in the room.
We get one more day together.
And thats why, gosh, yes, I would like to play in our nineties.
Thats got to be the last song.
To this day, I dont know exactly why it works, but it works.
It was on our first record, and it put us outside the mainstream.
Nobody knew what to make of us.
I remember handing it to Page, and he was like, I cant wait to play this.
It would be a perfect song to end with.
